I'm too dumb tell if that was an intellectual zing or not...
No ill will intended...

None taken.

Just playing ping-pong.

I'm too dumb tell if that was an intellectual zing or not...
No ill will intended...I may have just had my gender blinders on and demonstrated some ignorance...what are the chances of that (2to1)

Pardon me if you will while I take my foot out of mouth...

It doesn't strike me as any different from the other circular and tangential posts in threads elsewhere in this forum. And nearly all of the particpants are men :)

It doesn't strike me as any different from the other circular and tangential posts in threads elsewhere in this forum. And nearly all of the particpants are men

What I find pretty humorus is that three "men" and five posts tried to help out with a vague question from a "female". One "female" pointed out how vague the question was, and then credited the one "man" for his accurate reply to the "female's" vague question. The only one that got a thank you in this whole thread was "female".

Don't get me wrong, I love females. My grandmas, mom, wife and daughter's are all females.

I am laughing my ass off at this. Neither because I agree or disagree, just because of how different a similar thread played out on another board.

Thanks for responding, Labrat!!!

I was interested in negative side-effects for women taking Anti-Estrogenics.

I've heard that the Clenbutrx isn't a true Anti-Estrogenics, as well. Any thoughts?

I know what clenbuterol is, but I am unfamiliar with 'Clenbutrx.' The name implies that the supplement was/is designed to mimic the effects of clenbuterol. However, considering supplement name games these days, I could be wrong. Clenbuterol is a highly regulated pharmaceutical beta2-agonist sometimes used by bodybuilders to reduce that last bit of bodyfat during pre-contest prep. It also has transient anabolic properties in that it preserves muscle protein in an otherwise catabolic environment. However, the cardiac and vascular side effects can be intolerable for many, and its efficacy subsides within ~2 weeks.

As you can see clenbuterol is not considered an anti-estrogen. In fact, chronic beta-adrenoceptor stimulation by beta-agonists can upregulate some types of estrogen and progesterone receptors in specific tissues (not all tissues respond similarly). This is the opposite of 'anti-estrogenic' effects. Nevertheless, since I am not familiar with the supplement you speak of, and it is certainly NOT clenbuterol (or the FDA would jump on it), I do not know if the same attributes apply here.

As for anti-estrogens, it depends on the type of activity. If the active substance acts upon the receptor, it typically blocks the receptor so that estrogen cannot bind to it; or inhibits/reduces synthesis of estrogen (such as anti-aromatases, which block activity of the enzyme that converts androgens to estrogens). Both approaches have varying rates of efficacy.

Estrogen has gotten a bad rap in the bodybuilding industry and culture. Estrogens are responsible for many activities that confer cardioprotection, maintenance of bone mineral density, opposing some of the undesirable effects of androgens (virilization such as hair loss, voice changes, etc), smooth and soft skin, etc. It even has antioxidant properties. Estrogen isn't 'evil' like many portray it to be.

What is important is the estrogen:Testosterone ratio. Dan Duchaine and I were the only ones to really advocate this viewpoint: look at the estrogen:testosterone ratio (relative levels) rather than absolute levels. Complete inhibition of estrogen synthesis and activity is not good, even for men. Unless there are medical issues, such as breast cancer, anti-estrogenics are ill-advised.

Does that answer part of your question?