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bpi
 bpi
(@bpi)
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08/08/2019 7:12 pm  

Perhaps this should be a seperate thread, but I was under the impression that tapering was not any better than stopping exogenous hormones cold turkey and may even lead to longer suppression. Wouldn't this be true with any substance that will create a rebound effect, including 6-OXO?


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Heathen
(@heathen)
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08/08/2019 7:33 pm  

Bpi.... tapering prolongs the pain and reality of coming off too quicky. It's drastic so most individuals can't do it but I never taper. Cheers.


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Dante
(@dante)
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08/08/2019 7:56 pm  

Those are two different concepts. In the former case (with AAS) any amount that the body senses above baseline hormonal levels will prevent HPTA recovery (so the HPTA will not rebound simply because you are taking less Anadrol).

With a substance that can cause receptor and/or enzyme upregulation (in a negative manner), dropping cold-turkey will cause a condition in which the up-regulated mechanisms will continue unabated, without preventive impediments in place. By tapering downard, the up-regulated mentions will eventually down-regulate while you provide diminishing precautionary measures.

Man to his doom goes driving down; a crown of thorns is still a crown!

Crowley


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ChemicalPA
(@chemicalpa)
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08/08/2019 8:17 pm  
Posted by: @bpi

Pat, is 5AA intrinsically androgenic or are its metabolites androgenic, or both?

5AA has negligible intrinsic activity, and exhibits its androgenic activity through conversion to DHT

This post was modified 1 year ago by Benson

Hi Everybody!!


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ChemicalPA
(@chemicalpa)
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08/08/2019 8:41 pm  
Posted by: @nightop
this doesn't answer your question, but while we are on the topic of 6-oxo...  itsn't it a suicide aromatase inhibitor just like aromasin?  What is the difference between suicider's and plain old aromatase inhibitors like arimidex and femara?  If they permanately bind to the aromatase enzyme, does the body then clear the unusable aromatase and then somehow start producing more or will the levels of aromatase be permanetly suppressed (not likely)?  I know that arimidex and femara have half lives so my guess is that they temporarily bind to aromatase and then cease after a time period.... is this correct?

I'm basically asking how the body responds specifically to both suicide inhibitors and normal inhibitors in regards to aromatase.. how is it produced, etc...?

As far as the end result of stopping estrogen production, the suicide inhibitors and reversible binders work pretty much equally well.

I am not sure about the differences in rebound effects between the two and - what happens after cessation.

Hi Everybody!!


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ChemicalPA
(@chemicalpa)
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08/08/2019 9:02 pm  
Posted by: @nightop
It seems that there is no win-win situation when it comes to estrogen control... no matter what method is used, be it suicide inhibitors, regular aromatase inhibitors, or site blockers....  there is a downside when you come off...

Well, when you go off then just go back on a cycle of a non-aromatizing androgen!!

OK, maybe not the most politically correct advice. Sorry

Hi Everybody!!


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ChemicalPA
(@chemicalpa)
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08/08/2019 9:27 pm  
Posted by: @Heathen
Bpi.... tapering prolongs the pain and reality of coming off too quicky. It's drastic so most individuals can't do it but I never taper. Cheers.

when it comes to getting off any drug, tapering is always a pretty dissapointing solution. Ask any benzo addict, or opiate addict that tried to wean themselves off by tapering. They would tell you that cold turkey is a more realistic option

OK, not a completetly relevant comparison but I just thought I would throw this in the mix for contemplation purposes

Hi Everybody!!


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TheIronSpud
(@theironspud)
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08/08/2019 9:54 pm  

PA, are you saying that cold turkey, as fat as 6-OXO goes, has a lower chance of rebound than tapering? (I have a mind unfit for simple comparisons)


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nightop
(@nightop)
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08/08/2019 10:19 pm  

I'm with Dante on this one... I think it IS wise to taper estrogen control drugs (anti-a's, suicide inhibs, site blockers, whatever...).

READ MIND & MUSCLE ARTICLES FROM PAST ISSUES.


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Dante
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08/08/2019 10:36 pm  
Posted by: @theironspud

PA, are you saying that cold turkey, as fat as 6-OXO goes, has a lower chance of rebound than tapering?

No, as using this is not the same, psychologically as using Steroids (and opiates, etc; which is not to say that using Estrogen antogonists/anti-aromatases won't have mental impact).

It would be best to taper downward with 6-OXO as the effect after cessation is yet not known.

This post was modified 1 year ago by Benson

Man to his doom goes driving down; a crown of thorns is still a crown!

Crowley


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virtualcyber
(@virtualcyber)
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08/08/2019 10:59 pm  

A personal experience: I stopped taking 1-AD cold turkey -- I lost signifiant amount of my gains ... When I tapered, I was able to keep all of it. (Until I dieted them away ... sigh)

So, I like tapering ... it is economical as well (no clomid therapy!).

Ji-Yong David Chung


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Dio
 Dio
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08/08/2019 11:20 pm  
Posted by: @StneCldJer
dio why are you on it for six months?  do you take it to keep estorgen low so it is easier to cut up or something?

I was using initially to treat gyno and then stayed on while I was using boldione. From my experience there really is little added benefit when using t by itself for cutting.

Dante,

Thanks for the feedback -- I'll throw in another 2 weeks.

Be brave. Always be brave.


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Heathen
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08/08/2019 11:48 pm  

OK now that I have read the entire thread I feel that I can weigh in a little better. The way this thread is going you'd think that oestrogen is totally evil. I agree that they older you get the more you need to try and control it. I'm not sure how many guys on this board are over say 40 but I wouldn't think a lot.
Having said that estrogen is good for growth. It raises IGF-1 levels and what not. However a rebound of estrogen is bad because it could make you fat. I guess it's like eating doughnuts (too much of a good thing).
So now I'm asking myself when is it good to use this supplement. Well when I'm dieting low estrogen is best. When I'm comming off of a cycle and want to avoid a rebound of estrogen it might be good. Last if I'm old (over 40) it would be in my best interests to try and control estrogen.

Last I think that femura sucks (unless you have breast cancer) because it has too much of a rebound.

Tapering is more of an individuals choiceand you need to experiement with yourself to know what you are tring to achieve. My goal is constant progress. Tapering wastes my time of which I do not have a lot of my my goals are to get the biggest and strongest that I can. I have found what works for my now you guys need to find what works for you. Cheers.


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nightop
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09/08/2019 12:19 am  
Posted by: @Heathen
Last I think that femura sucks (unless you have breast cancer) because it has too much of a rebound.

Why do you say this? how would any rebound from femara differ from arimidex rebound as they are very very similiar... in fact femara raises igf-1 levels while arimidex lowers them.... I have no experience with femara but I'm curious as to what you mean specifically.

READ MIND & MUSCLE ARTICLES FROM PAST ISSUES.


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ChemicalPA
(@chemicalpa)
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09/08/2019 12:39 am  
Posted by: @TheIronSpud
PA, are you saying that cold turkey, as fat as 6-OXO goes, has a lower chance of rebound than tapering?  (I have a mind unfit for simple comparisons)

NO, I did not mean to indicate that. My answer is simply that i do not know.

Hi Everybody!!


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