Topic V - Sodium's ...
 
Notifications
Clear all

Topic V - Sodium's affects on conditioning

Page 1 / 2

Ken Skip Hill
(@ken-skip-hill)
Active Member
Joined: 1 month ago
Posts: 11
Topic starter  

Now, that everyone is back from shows and things have slowed down SLIGHTLY for most of us, I want to get another topic up in here and this one should be pretty good.

There are tons of different opinions on prep issues and one is sodium levels and how to manipulate sodium/water for a balance of fullness vs. being tight and dry. Usually one is at the expense of the other so that is why I use the word "balance". There are some that advocate for cutting sodium down to damned near nothing and due to this and other aspects of their prep phase, it works very well. However, there are others that use moderate sodium intake and never drop it and yet others that push sodium very high and never cut it.

I want to take this opportunity to throw around our ideas around these different approaches and see what everyone's opinions are. I don't plan to get too specific about my prep philosophy regarding sodium levels but I will gladly give my opinions on what I think of the different approaches. I will add that there is no "wrong" way to work sodium levels as I have stated previously, some approaches work very well for some and not for others. It is incredibly individual.

Skip


Quote
Dirkmoneyshot
(@dirkmoneyshot)
New Member
Joined: 3 weeks ago
Posts: 3
 

Just like skip alluded to.

1.) Its damn near impossible to be full without the sodium.
2.) Its damn near impossible to be completely dry with it.

You really have to strike a balance. Neither High nor none

I think its important to keep your sodium and water High to thursday (to get yourself carbed up) and then "reduce" on Friday maybe about 1/2 of what you were consuming. This also goes with water changes You can reintroduce some sodium back in on Saturday morning to improve vascularity and fullness. This is what i have been doing and seems to work pretty well. Do i have problems sometimes, Yes - thats why its important to know how to correct those problems when they come up.

I for one don't know how you can come keep your sodium extremely high and come in dry as Lou Joseph did with Scott abel. But i'm goint to guess for everyone 1 that this works for a good handfull it doesn't.

Let me also say that i would rather error on the side of being dry then full with the possability of being watery.


ReplyQuote
troponin
(@troponin)
New Member
Joined: 3 weeks ago
Posts: 3
 

If you're lean enough, you can do a lot of things you wouldn't normally be able to do.
I'm guessing that was a large part of Lou Joseph being able to keep the sodium high.

I find that you can carb someone up without ingesting sodium. Just because you aren't eating sodium, doesn't mean there isn't sodium still in your body. If you have been taking in enough sodium throughout the diet, you can drop sodium to almost nothing, and still store glycogen fairly well for a few days. By the third day, it's going to be pretty hard though.

This is one of the reasons I prefer to keep sodium high throughout the prep. I feel that everything is easier the final week if you're used to a very high sodium intake. With high amounts of sodium being taken in, and flushed out, it's easier to manipulate water balance.

The more efficient you are at reducing aldosterone levels naturally, the easier it is to dry out.

Everyone is different though. I've had clients who never seem to hold water, no matter how much sodium they take in. I've also had clients who would gain 10lbs in 24hours once we started playing with a high sodium intake. You really have to learn your client, and not have a "one size fits all" final prep.


ReplyQuote
troponin
(@troponin)
New Member
Joined: 3 weeks ago
Posts: 3
 

Just like skip alluded to.

1.) Its damn near impossible to be full without the sodium.
2.) Its damn near impossible to be completely dry with it.

You really have to strike a balance. Neither High nor none

I think its important to keep your sodium and water High to thursday (to get yourself carbed up) and then "reduce" on Friday maybe about 1/2 of what you were consuming. This also goes with water changes You can reintroduce some sodium back in on Saturday morning to improve vascularity and fullness. This is what i have been doing and seems to work pretty well. Do i have problems sometimes, Yes - thats why its important to know how to correct those problems when they come up.

I for one don't know how you can come keep your sodium extremely high and come in dry as Lou Joseph did with Scott abel. But i'm goint to guess for everyone 1 that this works for a good handfull it doesn't.

Let me also say that i would rather error on the side of being dry then full with the possability of being watery.


ReplyQuote
troponin
(@troponin)
New Member
Joined: 3 weeks ago
Posts: 3
 

Just like skip alluded to.

1.) Its damn near impossible to be full without the sodium.
2.) Its damn near impossible to be completely dry with it.

You really have to strike a balance. Neither High nor none

I think its important to keep your sodium and water High to thursday (to get yourself carbed up) and then "reduce" on Friday maybe about 1/2 of what you were consuming. This also goes with water changes You can reintroduce some sodium back in on Saturday morning to improve vascularity and fullness. This is what i have been doing and seems to work pretty well. Do i have problems sometimes, Yes - thats why its important to know how to correct those problems when they come up.

I for one don't know how you can come keep your sodium extremely high and come in dry as Lou Joseph did with Scott abel. But i'm goint to guess for everyone 1 that this works for a good handfull it doesn't.

Let me also say that i would rather error on the side of being dry then full with the possability of being watery.


ReplyQuote
Dirkmoneyshot
(@dirkmoneyshot)
New Member
Joined: 3 weeks ago
Posts: 3
 

I want to add to Trop - Yes i don't have a probelm with high sodium throughout the diet.. Condiments are just fine with me and they typically contain a lot of sodium. And agree the one size doesn't work....but i do keep a general baseline and try and adjust from there. I don't know about the whole being lean and getting away with the sodium -


ReplyQuote
Dirkmoneyshot
(@dirkmoneyshot)
New Member
Joined: 3 weeks ago
Posts: 3
 

Just like skip alluded to.

1.) Its damn near impossible to be full without the sodium.
2.) Its damn near impossible to be completely dry with it.

You really have to strike a balance. Neither High nor none

I think its important to keep your sodium and water High to thursday (to get yourself carbed up) and then "reduce" on Friday maybe about 1/2 of what you were consuming. This also goes with water changes You can reintroduce some sodium back in on Saturday morning to improve vascularity and fullness. This is what i have been doing and seems to work pretty well. Do i have problems sometimes, Yes - thats why its important to know how to correct those problems when they come up.

I for one don't know how you can come keep your sodium extremely high and come in dry as Lou Joseph did with Scott abel. But i'm goint to guess for everyone 1 that this works for a good handfull it doesn't.

Let me also say that i would rather error on the side of being dry then full with the possability of being watery.


ReplyQuote
Dirkmoneyshot
(@dirkmoneyshot)
New Member
Joined: 3 weeks ago
Posts: 3
 

Just like skip alluded to.

1.) Its damn near impossible to be full without the sodium.
2.) Its damn near impossible to be completely dry with it.

You really have to strike a balance. Neither High nor none

I think its important to keep your sodium and water High to thursday (to get yourself carbed up) and then "reduce" on Friday maybe about 1/2 of what you were consuming. This also goes with water changes You can reintroduce some sodium back in on Saturday morning to improve vascularity and fullness. This is what i have been doing and seems to work pretty well. Do i have problems sometimes, Yes - thats why its important to know how to correct those problems when they come up.

I for one don't know how you can come keep your sodium extremely high and come in dry as Lou Joseph did with Scott abel. But i'm goint to guess for everyone 1 that this works for a good handfull it doesn't.

Let me also say that i would rather error on the side of being dry then full with the possability of being watery.


ReplyQuote
Ken Skip Hill
(@ken-skip-hill)
Active Member
Joined: 1 month ago
Posts: 11
Topic starter  

You guys are saying "high sodium" but how do you define this without giving too much away? I don't put numbers to it. I just have my guys use condiments, soy sauce, etc., to keep the sodium levels high.

My concern isn't during the prep itself but during the last 72 hours. I have done it several ways from dropping sodium completely to leaving sodium the same to leaving things like aldactone out of the equation, all together. They have all worked but I have not gone with a rediculously high sodium intake and kept it high even during the last 72 hours.

I am not referring to Lou's prep as much as I have heard 2 other prep guys other than Scott that are doing this and I can't buy into it, just yet. I have concerns about that much sodium being ingested and don't think it is healthy at all. A year or so ago I remember hearing that one guy advocated for over 2g of sodium per liter of water ingested. That would put me between 14 - 18g of sodium per day and that is fucking insane. I want some logic or some type of explanation as to how this is safe and how it could possibly be beneficial and not just serious overkill. I can see pushing sodium high but that level is absurd, in my opinion.

I will also add that I have seen several guys that have used this approach and their condition though crazy full is not terribly dry as in shrink wrapped. They are tight and separated but not feathered and bone dry. I wonder what you other guys have noticed and if you have noticed the same thing.

Skip


ReplyQuote
Ken Skip Hill
(@ken-skip-hill)
Active Member
Joined: 1 month ago
Posts: 11
Topic starter  

Just like skip alluded to.

1.) Its damn near impossible to be full without the sodium.
2.) Its damn near impossible to be completely dry with it.

You really have to strike a balance. Neither High nor none

I think its important to keep your sodium and water High to thursday (to get yourself carbed up) and then "reduce" on Friday maybe about 1/2 of what you were consuming. This also goes with water changes You can reintroduce some sodium back in on Saturday morning to improve vascularity and fullness. This is what i have been doing and seems to work pretty well. Do i have problems sometimes, Yes - thats why its important to know how to correct those problems when they come up.

I for one don't know how you can come keep your sodium extremely high and come in dry as Lou Joseph did with Scott abel. But i'm goint to guess for everyone 1 that this works for a good handfull it doesn't.

Let me also say that i would rather error on the side of being dry then full with the possability of being watery.


ReplyQuote
Ken Skip Hill
(@ken-skip-hill)
Active Member
Joined: 1 month ago
Posts: 11
Topic starter  

Just like skip alluded to.

1.) Its damn near impossible to be full without the sodium.
2.) Its damn near impossible to be completely dry with it.

You really have to strike a balance. Neither High nor none

I think its important to keep your sodium and water High to thursday (to get yourself carbed up) and then "reduce" on Friday maybe about 1/2 of what you were consuming. This also goes with water changes You can reintroduce some sodium back in on Saturday morning to improve vascularity and fullness. This is what i have been doing and seems to work pretty well. Do i have problems sometimes, Yes - thats why its important to know how to correct those problems when they come up.

I for one don't know how you can come keep your sodium extremely high and come in dry as Lou Joseph did with Scott abel. But i'm goint to guess for everyone 1 that this works for a good handfull it doesn't.

Let me also say that i would rather error on the side of being dry then full with the possability of being watery.


ReplyQuote
Ken Skip Hill
(@ken-skip-hill)
Active Member
Joined: 1 month ago
Posts: 11
Topic starter  

Just like skip alluded to.

1.) Its damn near impossible to be full without the sodium.
2.) Its damn near impossible to be completely dry with it.

You really have to strike a balance. Neither High nor none

I think its important to keep your sodium and water High to thursday (to get yourself carbed up) and then "reduce" on Friday maybe about 1/2 of what you were consuming. This also goes with water changes You can reintroduce some sodium back in on Saturday morning to improve vascularity and fullness. This is what i have been doing and seems to work pretty well. Do i have problems sometimes, Yes - thats why its important to know how to correct those problems when they come up.

I for one don't know how you can come keep your sodium extremely high and come in dry as Lou Joseph did with Scott abel. But i'm goint to guess for everyone 1 that this works for a good handfull it doesn't.

Let me also say that i would rather error on the side of being dry then full with the possability of being watery.


ReplyQuote
Ken Skip Hill
(@ken-skip-hill)
Active Member
Joined: 1 month ago
Posts: 11
Topic starter  

I don't know how accurate TooPoo's info is that he posted in the question forum but he states that sodium is dropped on Thursday and reintroduced on saturday. The only difference between that and what most guys do is that the sodium is level is through the roof for the rest of the prep but not for the last 72 hours. I still want to hear or see something that says that sodium levels at 14g or more per day is safe and doesn't negatively affect renal function, blood pressure, etc.. It doesn't sound good no matter how high the water intake is. I could compromise on maybe 6-10g per day of sodium for hard training athletes with the higher water intake but once you get well over 10g, I am not convinced that this is a great idea.

Skip


ReplyQuote
Ken Skip Hill
(@ken-skip-hill)
Active Member
Joined: 1 month ago
Posts: 11
Topic starter  

Just like skip alluded to.

1.) Its damn near impossible to be full without the sodium.
2.) Its damn near impossible to be completely dry with it.

You really have to strike a balance. Neither High nor none

I think its important to keep your sodium and water High to thursday (to get yourself carbed up) and then "reduce" on Friday maybe about 1/2 of what you were consuming. This also goes with water changes You can reintroduce some sodium back in on Saturday morning to improve vascularity and fullness. This is what i have been doing and seems to work pretty well. Do i have problems sometimes, Yes - thats why its important to know how to correct those problems when they come up.

I for one don't know how you can come keep your sodium extremely high and come in dry as Lou Joseph did with Scott abel. But i'm goint to guess for everyone 1 that this works for a good handfull it doesn't.

Let me also say that i would rather error on the side of being dry then full with the possability of being watery.


ReplyQuote
Ken Skip Hill
(@ken-skip-hill)
Active Member
Joined: 1 month ago
Posts: 11
Topic starter  

Just like skip alluded to.

1.) Its damn near impossible to be full without the sodium.
2.) Its damn near impossible to be completely dry with it.

You really have to strike a balance. Neither High nor none

I think its important to keep your sodium and water High to thursday (to get yourself carbed up) and then "reduce" on Friday maybe about 1/2 of what you were consuming. This also goes with water changes You can reintroduce some sodium back in on Saturday morning to improve vascularity and fullness. This is what i have been doing and seems to work pretty well. Do i have problems sometimes, Yes - thats why its important to know how to correct those problems when they come up.

I for one don't know how you can come keep your sodium extremely high and come in dry as Lou Joseph did with Scott abel. But i'm goint to guess for everyone 1 that this works for a good handfull it doesn't.

Let me also say that i would rather error on the side of being dry then full with the possability of being watery.


ReplyQuote
Page 1 / 2
Share: