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SupremeDan
(@supremedan)
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Remeron is shown to greatly decrease cortisol release through ACTH inhibition...anybody use it for post cycle allready???

seems as a great adition to a HCG/clomid/NOLVA/AROMASIN post cycle therapy to have the best posct cycle therapy ever!!!!!!!!


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Section 8
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Worst idea ever.


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akp2004
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Having used it during chronic pain treatment, and for its label purposes, I'd say find another way to control cortisol.

It (1) can make you tired as heck, and (2) drive you to eat with a sometimes insatiable appetite. Given your concern for your very low bodyfat, I'd think you'd not want this side effect.


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epote
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i actually have a pack right here, never used it my self and not planing to but i gave 10 15mg pills to a mate.

he says that his appetite is beyond all imagination, he just eats and half an hour later he'll be hungry again.

other than that he has no sides besides a general feeling of tiredness that was much more intence the first two days but dissapeared later on.

imo, not worth it...


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SupremeDan
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ok..thanks guys..........i new about the apetide increase...but i didnīt know it was so insane

which other pharmaceutical drugs would you guys recomend to control cortisol post cycle ( please no supplements...only drugs) ??


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akp2004
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Posted by: @epote
i actually have a pack right here, never used it my self and not planing to but i gave 10 15mg pills to a mate.

he says that his appetite is beyond all imagination, he just eats and half an hour later he'll be hungry again.

other than that he has no sides besides a general feeling of tiredness that was much more intence the first two days but dissapeared later on.

imo, not worth it...

Dan -- I will say this - when I was rebuilding after major back surgeries, the appetite was AWESOME and very functional. the only time it sucked was at night, and I would literally wake up and have my arm into the refridgerator grabbing anything that had calories and carbs. was REALLY weird. like not quite sleepwalking but really darn close -

During the day though, it made it easy to eat the kind of regular meals needed to regain 30-40lbs and eat through the day, clean food.

I still find it interesting about how these work - when I was tapering off of pain meds (long term from 2 back surgeries), I was having trouble getting off, because my back wasnt really healed yet, and I had been on Oramorph for 2+ years. I added 1Wellbutrin XR to Remeron (30mg), and was able to get off pain meds literally within 10 days after trying for months. It was like a key turning a lock - not a willpower issue anymore.

Further, the combo was excellent for drive during the day and sleep at night.

I've been off both for 6months now, and am slowly feeling like my brain chemistry is normalizing - there was certainly a functional drive/buzz that these create, but I dont think for the long term it's the zone I want to operate in all the time. I am already intense and driven and focused, and the supps made me kind of machine like and less true sense of joy/euphoria and less sensation of feeling true sadness/pain.


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SupremeDan
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Posted by: @akp2004
Dan -- I will say this - when I was rebuilding after major back surgeries, the appetite was AWESOME and very functional. the only time it sucked was at night, and I would literally wake up and have my arm into the refridgerator grabbing anything that had calories and carbs. was REALLY weird. like not quite sleepwalking but really darn close -

During the day though, it made it easy to eat the kind of regular meals needed to regain 30-40lbs and eat through the day, clean food.

I still find it interesting about how these work - when I was tapering off of pain meds (long term from 2 back surgeries), I was having trouble getting off, because my back wasnt really healed yet, and I had been on Oramorph for 2+ years. I added 1Wellbutrin XR to Remeron (30mg), and was able to get off pain meds literally within 10 days after trying for months. It was like a key turning a lock - not a willpower issue anymore.

Further, the combo was excellent for drive during the day and sleep at night.

I've been off both for 6months now, and am slowly feeling like my brain chemistry is normalizing - there was certainly a functional drive/buzz that these create, but I dont think for the long term it's the zone I want to operate in all the time. I am already intense and driven and focused, and the supps made me kind of machine like and less true sense of joy/euphoria and less sensation of feeling true sadness/pain.

what is the mechanism for such appetide surge??? anybody know??


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akp2004
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Posted by: @SupremeDan
what is the mechanism for such appetide surge??? anybody know??

I dont, sorry -- I know it has an effect on a few neurochems - but, I cant tell you why it has this effect.

Anyone? Bueller?

Honestly, it was quite the excellent drug for me - I only cautioned you because you've posted recently how you're scared/overcautious when it comes to fat gain, eating, etc...and you like to maintain a fairly low bodyfat.


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Section 8
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Posted by: @SupremeDan
what is the mechanism for such appetide surge??? anybody know??

H1 antagonism.

Did I mention that the idea of using this as a PCT agent is insanely stupid? Seriously, hardcore psychopharmaceuticals aren't drugs you just throw back because they happen to have neat downstream effects on cortisol. I can't emphasize enough how stupid of an idea this is.


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epote
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section 8:

in principal i agree with you but do you have any reasons as to WHY its stupid?


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andr3as
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Posted by: @SupremeDan
what is the mechanism for such appetide surge??? anybody know??

well quite honestly said, it is due to 5ht2a blockade triggered by alpha2 antagonism


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SupremeDan
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Posted by: @Section 8
H1 antagonism.

Did I mention that the idea of using this as a PCT agent is insanely stupid? Seriously, hardcore psychopharmaceuticals aren't drugs you just throw back because they happen to have neat downstream effects on cortisol. I can't emphasize enough how stupid of an idea this is.

yeah...did some extra research here and i really see that it was really a stupid idea............

but do you or anybody know what would be a good cortisol control drug for post cycle?


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Section 8
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Posted by: @epote
section 8:

in principal i agree with you but do you have any reasons as to WHY its stupid?

It's a tetracyclic anti-depressant. While not as bad as the tricyclics, there are still concerns re. hepatoxicity and cardiotoxicity to worry about. One of the other issues very relevant to the context being discussed is that it can royally fuck with lipids in some people. Moreover, immediate corisol control notwithstanding, you need to take into account the mechanism whereby cortisol is controlled. There will be a rebound following use, for one thing. Personally, I would be far more concerned about the mental effects in normal people. As stated, this is a bona-fide tetracyclic anti-depressant. They don't even prescribe this stuff to people with run of the mill depression. It's reserved for cases of dysthmic and other treatment resistant depressions, e.g. cases where treatment with SSRI's, including the more potent ones like prozac and paxil, have failed, as well as drugs more potent than the SSRI's, such as effexor. Easily identifiable effects like severe lethargy, memory loss, etc., aside, it's hard to say what effect a drug like this might have on the psychology of a somewhat normal person. Again, we're talking about using a drug that is prescribed to people whose depression has basically rendered them incapable of normal functioning in a population of people who are ostensibly functional. It could well have the effect of rendering such people entirely DYSfunctional, which is less than desirable for those of us who aren't bodybuilders in the sense that we live in studio apartments, spend all day eating, and suck off our drug-dealers to pay the bills ($0.02 to Dante). If it does fuck with you, what then? Take a few days off of work? This stuff has a half-life that ranges between 20-40 hours depending on the condition of your cytochrome system, which may well be severely taxed following a cycle, esp. if that cycle included the use of orals. Also, the drug has a known withdrawal effect. ... Do I need to continue, or can my cost-benefit analysis of using this TO BLUNT CORTISOL be intuited??

QUOTEbut do you or anybody know what would be a good cortisol control drug for post cycle?

The drug's effects on cortisol are mediated through its effects on the histamine receptor. If you really want to go that route, then maybe you should try benadryl (if you want some idea of what the remeron lethargy is like, try mega-dosing benadryl for a few days and see how you like it). I wouldn't do that though, personally. I would just use 7OXO-DHEA.


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epote
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thanks man, your reply was very imformative.

though my mate, had some of the sides at 15mg ed for the first few days, then they stopped.

bar the memory loss, he says that whatever he does the next day feel like dream.


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Section 8
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Posted by: @epote
thanks man, your reply was very imformative.

though my mate, had some of the sides at 15mg ed for the first few days, then they stopped.

bar the memory loss, he says that whatever he does the next day feel like dream.

Adequate memory and not feeling delusional all day are two things I was suggesting that people who use their brains for a living would probably value over inhibition of cortisol secretion.

On another note, some of the physical side-effects noted, e.g. cardio and hepatoxicity tend to be things that don't develop overnight. Relative to the tricyclics, remeron only weakly binds to muscarinic receptors. Nonetheless, if your liver is in a basically toxic state to being with, say, on account of oral use, then remeron isn't something you want to be using even if you don't mind the mental effects.


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