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PCT or not


cupcake
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I'm ending my cycle of Primo. I have been tapering for weeks now and I need to know if I need PCT of any kind.

Some ppl tell me I don't need any b/c "I have no balls", others tell me I should.

Please help.


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QueenofDamned
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if youve been tapering, that's enough, your hormone levels should be pretty much level now. what was your dose and at what doses did you taper?

women don't need PCT, if you taper, there will be no PMS bitch from hell moments, i can assure you:)


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cupcake
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I had 100mg (1ml) once a week. I had my 9th inject 1 week and a half after the 8th one and the last one 2 weeks after the 9th.

I have had no period for more than 8 weeks and that's what's worrying me. I think my hormones are pretty messed up. What's your opinion? Could it be the Primo? I had regular periods before I started juicing and also during the first month. Since then, nothing at all. They stopped altogether.

Thx for the advice.


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BuffD
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I really wish DG posted here. She has a PCT for women that she does that really works well. It also helps some of the side effects go away. I'll as her what it is that she does and try to post it up. There are things that a woman can do after cycle. Mostly it will help with some of the side effects that she had gotten. Oh and she never tapers and never has any issues. I'm not a big fan of tapering anyway. Even tiny amounts will mess up your natural hormone production so I really don't see the point. But we all have our own ways of doing things.


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Chest Rockwell
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Oh and she never tapers and never has any issues. I'm not a big fan of tapering anyway. Even tiny amounts will mess up your natural hormone production so I really don't see the point.

Very good point.

This is a good thread. I'd be interested in hearing DG's method, Buff.

How about lots of clomid? That way she could have a litter of meatheads. haha


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QueenofDamned
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tapering works, peroid. it's the only way i will come off a cycle. and many other women (and men) i know follow the same program (the men usually add Nolvadex)

if you give your body a chance to recognize a fluctuation in hormone levels, it will work harden to strive for homeostasis.


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Chest Rockwell
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if you give your body a chance to recognize a fluctuation in hormone levels, it will work harden to strive for homeostasis.

Yes, homeostasis is the key and that is why when you add in hormones your body stops producing its own. Again...as Buff stated earlier, even miminal amounts will shut down your natural production if taken for any length of time.

I doubt there is much actual scientific research on the subject but it would be nice if there were...to back either method. QOD, do you actually come off completely? If so, for how long do you come off? I remember PS saying he is on year round even if just at a "maintenance" dosage.


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QueenofDamned
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Yes, homeostasis is the key and that is why when you add in hormones your body stops producing its own. Again...as Buff stated earlier, even miminal amounts will shut down your natural production if taken for any length of time.

I doubt there is much actual scientific research on the subject but it would be nice if there were...to back either method. QOD, do you actually come off completely? If so, for how long do you come off? I remember PS saying he is on year round even if just at a "maintenance" dosage.
yes, i DO come off Testosterone completely for about 5 months out of the year. i taper down slowly, usually takes about 5-6 weeks.

ps does not come off, he is on a low dose all year round (he's 45 so his hormone levels have dropped dramatically) but he always runs trib and it seems to always keep his boy's hangin'

i have tried other methods, and it always ends the same, im a PMS bitch from hell. if i just taper off slowly, my body seems to adapt to the fluctuation of hormones and i never run into any problems.

this method (by adding only nolvadex during the taper) also works for men. a taper allows a more cost effective PCT (there is no need for HCG which really is only a bandaid drug) and homeostasis is reached much faster (i have seen) than utililizing clomid, HCG, etc...

anyone i train (my husband takes care of the training part, i usually handle the cycles) i INSIST they taper in the fashion i have mentioned above, they all agree it is a much better route to go....

i have actually read on the net, women who take "estrogen" supplements for PCT, which makes no sense to me and IMO is ridiculous. why would you "add" to your already "hieghtened" estrogen levels? if you are adding sythetic test, your natural estrogen levels will rise to stay "in tune" with the level of testosterone, adding estrogen is just going to make it worse.

but, each to their own, right?


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p.s.
 p.s.
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Yes, homeostasis is the key and that is why when you add in hormones your body stops producing its own. Again...as Buff stated earlier, even miminal amounts will shut down your natural production if taken for any length of time.

I doubt there is much actual scientific research on the subject but it would be nice if there were...to back either method. QOD, do you actually come off completely? If so, for how long do you come off? I remember PS saying he is on year round even if just at a "maintenance" dosage. I agree that even minimal amounts would shut down a persons natural test production. However if one has been running supraphysiological amounts of test/AAS then by running a taper (using a short ester) along with nolva at the end of the cycle the body will recognize the drop in hormones and strive to adapt (homeostasis) by increasing natural test production.

Now of course adding the nolva will also assist this process as it will work on the negative feed back loop thus also giving hormonal signals to your HPTA to start the process of test production. I've also found that along with both a taper and nolva that tribulus also assists in keeping my testies full even if I'm running a long cycle, and this of course aids in the whole rebound effect from a cycle.

Remember that I've been at this for a very long time and found that a taper worked just fine back in the "old days" when I would run a 12 week cycle and then come off for extended periods of time. In fact I found that I would at worst lose about 1-2 reps off my lifts and maybe a couple of pounds of water weight. I did however eat like a MOFO at all times and trained just as hard when I came off as I did when I was on.

I mentioned above about a rebound and it's funny but I never hear about this little boost anymore. Back in the early/mid 80s after we had tapered off it would take about 2-3 weeks and then it was like a little mini cycle would hit, and things would just take off again for a few weeks before settling back down again. It was a pretty cool little boost, but I wonder why I never hear guys talking about it anymore?

Lastly I would never advise anyone to use clomid. As this stuff is pure crap and will only make matters worse with regards to PCT. Guys it will actually increase your estrogen levels, and could cause some nasty sides like gyno. It does not work like nolva and does not "block" estrogen receptors. Clomid has a very different mechanism of action from nolva and should be avoided by everyone not in need of a female fertility drug.


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cupcake
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p.s., you know a lot about PCT. Tell me if I need any, please.

Cheers.

CC.


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QueenofDamned
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all you need to do is taper off your cycle, depending on length of cycle, usually 2 weeks will do it.

you mention in another thread about anavar. you could start using anavar as a "bridge" since you have stopped the primo(im not sure if you tapered or just "stopped") run the var for a few weeks at a low dose and then taper it off.

you will know if your hormones are out of whack (again, im not sure of the ester that was attached to the primo) but if you were using a slow release ester, it will take a couple of weeks to notice and you will feel like you have PMS. it's not a nice feeling, i tried just "stopping" once, never again.

i always taper off ANY steroid i use. it is very important for women to do this as when we utilize synthetic hormones that raise our testosterone levels, (like men) our natural estrogen levels go up as well. since men don't have as high
of a natural estrogen level as we do, our levels are increased dramatically.

if you just "stop" what you are using, your test levels will drop dramatically (unlike men, our natural test levels aren't very high) and your estrogen levels will take longer to "drop" meaning you will be a crying, whining, estrogen bitch from hell:D it takes a couple of weeks for your body to realize your hormone levels are out of sorts before it will start reducing estrogen levels.

if you taper, your body will adjust much faster and you will be able to skip the whole PMS thing;)


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BuffD
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I just don't agree on the whole tapering method. It's not like if you are running 1000mgs of test and you drop it to 500mgs your body is gonna say "hmmmm test levels are dropping so I better get ready to start making test again". Once production stops it will stay that way until the levels are abnormally low and it needs to produce again or you do a proper PCT to get it going again. We all have different methods but to say it works period is irresponsible. Nothing is for sure with gear since there has never really been any tests or studies to prove anything. DG never tapers. She runs shorter cycles so her body doesn't get a chance to have her normal hormones get out of whack. She will run a PCT after a while so her body can be totally normal again and she can get her period and such. Too many females bodybuilders keep going and never get their period and this is a real problem. You can also run things like Glucophage to couteract virilization in women. Try the tapering but it's not a tried and true method and it's not the only way to do things. May work for you and it may not. I come off for a few months every year and never taper and my body goes back to normal after a good PCT.


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cupcake
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Well after tapering off during 3 weeks, my period has returned. I hadn't had any for more than 8 weeks. I'll have my blood checked, just to be sure that everything is back to normal. I'll keep you posted.


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p.s.
 p.s.
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Well after tapering off during 3 weeks, my period has returned. I hadn't had any for more than 8 weeks. I'll have my blood checked, just to be sure that everything is back to normal. I'll keep you posted.Well it's been a few weeks since you last posted, so how's everything going?


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