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Stay Puft
(@stay-puft)
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Joined: 3 months ago
Posts: 11
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In my last order to BN.com I received a book(let) outlining a pre-competition dieting strategy. "Game Over: The Final Showtime Cut Diet You'll Ever Need!"

I browsed the contents and found a few interesting pieces of info I wanted to open to discussion. Maybe my diet knowledge has gotten a little slack, but I've come to practice certain things when dieting that this book suggests against.

Firstly: Never consumer Pro and CHO together. Their premise is based on insulin management and the claim is simple. Pro and CHO will have an additive effect on insulin secretion, thus elevating it to undesirable levels. By avoiding pro + CHO meals the authors claim CHO's will be predominately utilized to restore muscle glycogen and maintain proper thyroid function. The thyroid portion I've got no qualms with however, the muscle glycogen thing doesn't sit well. Is it the case that the insulin spike (created by CHO + Pro meals) will cause fat storage in lieu of the muscles demand for glycogen? To what degree will the fat cells blunt glycogen synthesis?

Secondly: Expensive Glucose? I've always combined small amounts of CHO (starchy) to my 'protein only' meals to avoid gluconeogenesis. I realize part of this is done in vain since gluconeogenesis is inevitable to a degree, but it makes me feel smarter than my body.

Thirdly: Once again, on the premise of insulin management being priority #1 in fat loss, they suggest no post-workout shakes. I haven't been a WPI + dextrose guy for years, but given the body of research showing the benefits to post-exercise feeding I can't see this being something I'd ever practice. Note, I typically consumer whole foods post workout, but pre- and post- workout meals are always the biggest of the day to take full advantage of the nutrient partitioning potential in the workout window. Thoughts on the abolishment of the post-workout MEAL (or shake)?

Overall, I thought that the book was pretty solid with some sound general advice to aid dieters in their quest, but these were sticking points I thought deserved added attention.


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Stay Puft
(@stay-puft)
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Topic starter  

QUOTE Is it the case that the insulin spike (created by CHO + Pro meals) will cause fat storage in lieu of the muscles demand for glycogen?

I found this study which, among other things of lesser interest, showed that de novo lipogenesis will indeed restrict glycogen synthesis during an extended (4-day) CHO overfeed. How relevant is this? I'm skeptical if it is all since the overfeeding period was 4 days @ 200g/d and the post-exercise window wasn't discussed.


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Jason Pegg
(@jason-pegg)
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Im pretty sure this is what Mike McCandless is doing...hes fucking jacked now too.

Jason


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liorrh
(@liorrh)
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Joined: 3 months ago
Posts: 23
 

any references to all that jazz? no offence but it does sound stupid to me and not because of some paradygm


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razg
 razg
(@razg)
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Joined: 3 weeks ago
Posts: 2
 

I have read a good proportion of this book; I must say I am not impressed. IMO it's a way to pimp Scivation supplements. I do not see (1) as a substantiated point; I would like to see more empiricism related to that. No comments on (2) but with regards to (3) I think in any situation but an androgen assisted cutting cardio session it would be a mistake. I personally have not touched whey for a good while, I am consuming soley whole foods for my PWO meal, and have not noticed any difference. I consider the holy grail of insulin control to be a roughly isocaloric meal split along with minimal GI carb sources.


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SupremeDan
(@supremedan)
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Joined: 2 months ago
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common...did you guys ever see how chuck looks????

seriosuly.....his diets are nothing great neither are bad.....i'ts just his diet......and like i said many times in here...insulin control is not something a fit individual with a normal metabolism should worry about....insulin control will only help fat loss ion individuals with hyperinsulenemia, metabolic sydrome and etc.

when you diet down on caloric deficit you are allready taking control of your insulin. insulin levels will be drastcally low on low cal diets.

a good diet shoud focus on many aspects and should be planned speciaficall for each indivdual needs.


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eclypz
(@eclypz)
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Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 8
 
Posted by: @SupremeDan
common...did you guys ever see how chuck looks????

seriosuly.....his diets are nothing great neither are bad.....i'ts just his diet......and like i said many times in here...insulin control is not something a fit individual with a normal metabolism should worry about....insulin control will only help fat loss ion individuals with hyperinsulenemia, metabolic sydrome and etc.

when you diet down on caloric deficit you are allready taking control of your insulin. insulin levels will be drastcally low on low cal diets.

a good diet shoud focus on many aspects and should be planned speciaficall for each indivdual needs.

I'm still waiting for your diet plan for me...

eclypz signature


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abraxas
(@abraxas)
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Joined: 3 weeks ago
Posts: 1
 
Posted by: @Stay Puft
Negative, the book was without references.

RE: the Scivation pimping - Ohh hell yea. The recommended supplement section was a total joke. They made sure to list everything in their product line.... However, I choke that blatent pimping up to the cost of producing the book for people, so I wasn't at all surprised or offended. It was free, and like I said, there was some decent information regarding insulin managment and dieting stratagies. I'd be interested in explioting a few ignorant trainers and racking their results. Funny thing about being a a bodybuilder, it seems like if you have the work ethic, ignorance is definately bliss.

http://cutdiet.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=28

is it the same as this being sold for $20?


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Stay Puft
(@stay-puft)
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Posts: 11
Topic starter  
Posted by: @abraxas
http://cutdiet.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=28

is it the same as this being sold for $20?

Wow, indeed it is. Nice post, I'm glad someone informed me this was actually for sale. In that case I'm a little disappointed I had ot endure the pimping. Shame....


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Kimbo
(@kimbo)
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Joined: 3 months ago
Posts: 5
 

I don't see how one could practically eat carbs and protein away from each other. Would you just eat a sh'load of protein during your protein meals?

If someone says something about you, and it really bothers you, it's probably because it's true.


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SupremeDan
(@supremedan)
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Joined: 2 months ago
Posts: 12
 
Posted by: @eclypz
I'm still waiting for your diet plan for me...

i am stil watitng your pm so we can talk about $$$$


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vain68
(@vain68)
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Joined: 3 months ago
Posts: 5
 

QUOTEThirdly: Once again, on the premise of insulin management being priority #1 in fat loss, they suggest no post-workout shakes. I haven't been a WPI + dextrose guy for years, but given the body of research showing the benefits to post-exercise feeding I can't see this being something I'd ever practice. Note, I typically consumer whole foods post workout, but pre- and post- workout meals are always the biggest of the day to take full advantage of the nutrient partitioning potential in the workout window. Thoughts on the abolishment of the post-workout MEAL (or shake)?

I have concurred with this point time and again.


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vain68
(@vain68)
Active Member
Joined: 3 months ago
Posts: 5
 
Posted by: @Stay Puft
In my last order to BN.com I received a book(let) outlining a pre-competition dieting strategy. "Game Over: The Final Showtime Cut Diet You'll Ever Need!"

I browsed the contents and found a few interesting pieces of info I wanted to open to discussion. Maybe my diet knowledge has gotten a little slack, but I've come to practice certain things when dieting that this book suggests against.

Firstly: Never consumer Pro and CHO together. Their premise is based on insulin management and the claim is simple. Pro and CHO will have an additive effect on insulin secretion, thus elevating it to undesirable levels. By avoiding pro + CHO meals the authors claim CHO's will be predominately utilized to restore muscle glycogen and maintain proper thyroid function. The thyroid portion I've got no qualms with however, the muscle glycogen thing doesn't sit well. Is it the case that the insulin spike (created by CHO + Pro meals) will cause fat storage in lieu of the muscles demand for glycogen? To what degree will the fat cells blunt glycogen synthesis?

Secondly: Expensive Glucose? I've always combined small amounts of CHO (starchy) to my 'protein only' meals to avoid gluconeogenesis. I realize part of this is done in vain since gluconeogenesis is inevitable to a degree, but it makes me feel smarter than my body.

Thirdly: Once again, on the premise of insulin management being priority #1 in fat loss, they suggest no post-workout shakes. I haven't been a WPI + dextrose guy for years, but given the body of research showing the benefits to post-exercise feeding I can't see this being something I'd ever practice. Note, I typically consumer whole foods post workout, but pre- and post- workout meals are always the biggest of the day to take full advantage of the nutrient partitioning potential in the workout window. Thoughts on the abolishment of the post-workout MEAL (or shake)?

Overall, I thought that the book was pretty solid with some sound general advice to aid dieters in their quest, but these were sticking points I thought deserved added attention.

Stay,
any chance you could .pdf that booklet? You can PM backchannel if necessary; I'd be very interested to have a gawk.

Vv


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Stay Puft
(@stay-puft)
Active Member
Joined: 3 months ago
Posts: 11
Topic starter  
Posted by: @vain68
Stay,
any chance you could .pdf that booklet? You can PM backchannel if necessary; I'd be very interested to have a gawk.

Vv

Negative, I've got the book itself sitting on the coffee table and not a scanner to be had in the areas.


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vain68
(@vain68)
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Joined: 3 months ago
Posts: 5
 
Posted by: @Stay Puft
Negative, I've got the book itself sitting on the coffee table and not a scanner to be had in the areas.

You live in the woods?


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