winny & 19-Norandrostenedione

As I said, and as Nandi said, it could have been a coincidence----and I'm glad it was just that

In cases like this you have to weight the possible benefits with the potential risks, and luckily you came out the winner!

Yes, drop the nor-dione at the same time. It's not likely that the nor-dion is contributing to your gains, although it is possible that it can put you at risk for side effects. In other words, the winny is responsible for your gains so when you're done with that, drop everything.

Post cycle, 7ketoDhea may help, as well as antioxidants. You may wish to temporarily decrease your training volume (if you're currently pushing it).

Posted by: @shpongled

Also, have you looked into clen, cytomel, DNP etc, as far as illicits go? T3 may really help you out, DNP may cause reproductive damage in women, if that is something you are concerned with.

Clenbuterol is effective for about 14 days. After that, the beta-ARs are desensitized and downregulate.
Thyroid drugs are like playing with dynamite. I know of too many cases where using T3 has irreversibly dysrupted thryoid function. Also, too high a dose will cause muscle catabolism. DNP; well, I don't recommend that, either.

Posted by: @sicily1962

Glad to help.  You can drop them at the same time, nor problem.  As for recovery from it, I really I have no idea for women, i'll do some looking around.

that would be great, thanks!
i'm making sure that i'm taking plenty of antioxidants and also my regular supps like mass aminos and liver tabs w/ each meal....preventative maintenance, you could say.

There doesn't seem to be much in the way of a 1/2 life in either case so things should just dissipate quickly i would think, except for the gains.
I'm pretty sure i'm gonna maintain the majority of those.
Anything you can find out though, would be great.
again big man, thank you.

The half life for any of the norandro PHs is longer than most think. Just like with norandrolone, some of it can be sequestered in tissues to be released later.

A question that I have is regarding your menstrual cycles: have they been disrupted with the AS cycle? If so, oral contraceptives may help restore your HPAG axis. Androstenedione or DHEA may also help restore normal sex hormone levels, depending on the severity of the disruption.

Elzi,

Going by anecdotes, I haven't heard of many women who had any results with low doses (100 mgs or so) of any oral andro product (putting aside 1AD, which very few have used, or at least made mention of).

Posted by: @Labrat

The half life for any of the norandro PHs is longer than most think. Just like with norandrolone, some of it can be sequestered in tissues to be released later.

A question that I have is regarding your menstrual cycles: have they been disrupted with the AS cycle? If so, oral contraceptives may help restore your HPAG axis. Androstenedione or DHEA may also help restore normal sex hormone levels, depending on the severity of the disruption.

Labrat,
thanks for stopping by!
Thus far i have had one cycle, it came about 6days early and was regular. I should be starting another here in about 1wk. I'll make sure i post whether or not that happens.

One question that i have to ask ~
you wrote "Androstenedione or DHEA may also help restore normal sex hormone levels, depending on the severity of the disruption. "
how is the androstendendione different than the 19-Norandrostenedione i am taking?
and is 1-AD the product you are referring to?

Even in the past w/o any useage...once i dropped below 15%, they stopped all together. In fact, last year, i went the entire year w/o a cycle at all in between two shows and at one point in between i got just under 18% w/o having one.

After reading everything here, i have planned on ending the 19-Nor cycle as well.
In your opinion...how long should one wait before beginning another cycle? Or does it matter what the cycle is that determines the time frame?

Dante- also thank you for your response.
I have began dropping some of the intensity already a couple of days ago...a gradual thing.
I love to train and it's hard to give up the weight, but i opted for more reps w/ less.
I do realize in the long run, that will be the better option for me.

Ciao!

Posted by: @Labrat

Going by anecdotes, I haven't heard of many women who had any results with low doses (100 mgs or so) of any oral andro product (putting aside 1AD, which very few have used, or at least made mention of).

First, results are relative. What results were they expecting? If they expected the same results as regular steroids, then they will be disappointed. The mass gains from PHs for women are not as rapid as from steroids, but they will occur over time if all other parameters are optimal.

I used androstenedione (100-150 mg/day) for 4 week cycles many years ago (it also helped to regulate my menstrual cycles as I have PCOS-associated dysmenorrhea). I made good gains on it, but then I also have abnormally high endogenous T levels (due to the PCOS). I'm sure that they were not equivalent to gains that could have resulted from steroid use.

I should also mention that 200 mg/day was too high for me. Blood and urine analyses showed very high levels of androgen metabolites. I had to cease use for a few weeks, letting them clear my system and we found that 100 mg/day was better tolerated. Later, I dosed 150 mg on training days only (3-4 days/week) and had similar results.

However, my goals were slightly different than a fbb: bodybuilding was not my goal, I trained for powerlifting. I also used it with explicit goals of regulating dysmenorrhea and aiding recovery, which the latter was very successful. I now have to use DHEA, which is not as efficacious in either.

Posted by: @sicily1962

After reading everything here, i have planned on ending the 19-Nor cycle as well.
In your opinion...how long should one wait before beginning another cycle?  Or does it matter what the cycle is that determines the time frame?

Of what, winstrol or prohormones?

Posted by: @Labrat

After reading everything here, i have planned on ending the 19-Nor cycle as well.
In your opinion...how long should one wait before beginning another cycle?  Or does it matter what the cycle is that determines the time frame?

Of what, winstrol or prohormones?

good question.

another cycle of winny perhaps in the spring and maybe Tren At that time as well.

but the PH question is a good one as well.
Obviously, they cannot be something that can be taken on a regular basis from all that i read...there are cycles here as well.

And of course, most are not for women either.
the 19-Nor was recommended to me as well as Norandrodiol...i went w/ what i thought might be the best based on the information i could find at the time.
but if you could shed some light on the subject, it would be appreciated.

I would be very weary of using tren, even as a ~220lb male, 50mgs ed is quite noticeable of course for strength and lean tissue gains, but for me, tren is the worse for hairloss, and acne, so I would imagine tren in fairly small doses could wreak havoc on a woman.

Posted by: @sicily1962

One question that i have to ask ~
you wrote "Androstenedione or DHEA may also help restore normal sex hormone levels, depending on the severity of the disruption. "
how is the androstendendione different than the 19-Norandrostenedione i am taking?
and is 1-AD the product you are referring to?

Androstenedione converts to testosterone, 19-norandrostenedione converts to nandrolone. 1-AD = 1-androstenediol, which converts to 1-testosterone.

BTW, apologies if you have emailed in the last week without a response - I have moved, and my new email is dvdtlsn@1fast400.com.

Posted by: @prolangtum

I would be very weary of using tren, even as a ~220lb male, 50mgs ed is quite noticeable of course for strength and lean tissue gains, but for me, tren is the worse for hairloss, and acne, so I would imagine tren in fairly small doses could wreak havoc on a woman.

I've been doing a lot of research on other boards, and from what I've read, I'd agree that tren is probably not a great AAS for a second cycle, esp stacked. Everything I've read in my research seems to say that for women at least trying a new AAS for the first time it's better not to stack it...learn how each treats your body first. If you get bad sides in a stack, it's hard to tell if it was the combination, or the new drug or what.

That said, I'm just planning my first cycle myself, so I'm no expert. I've been researching it for two years, though, on other boards.

xoxo

Wyst

Posted by: @wyst

I would be very weary of using tren, even as a ~220lb male, 50mgs ed is quite noticeable of course for strength and lean tissue gains, but for me, tren is the worse for hairloss, and acne, so I would imagine tren in fairly small doses could wreak havoc on a woman.

I've been doing a lot of research on other boards, and from what I've read, I'd agree that tren is probably not a great AAS for a second cycle, esp stacked. Everything I've read in my research seems to say that for women at least trying a new AAS for the first time it's better not to stack it...learn how each treats your body first. If you get bad sides in a stack, it's hard to tell if it was the combination, or the new drug or what.

That said, I'm just planning my first cycle myself, so I'm no expert. I've been researching it for two years, though, on other boards.

xoxo

Wyst

i think i would agree with that statement.
for sure better not to stack it until i see how it will react.
that's playing it safe.
i have read some posts on another board from women who have used it and have had good results. but again, everyone is different.

i'm satisfied w/ my gains with this first go round and will contemplate another perhaps in the spring.
nothing more to do now except eat , sleep and train hard and continue to make gains the natural way.

thanks for the input...your name sounds a bit familar ~ do we know each other?

Posted by: @sicily1962

I would be very weary of using tren, even as a ~220lb male, 50mgs ed is quite noticeable of course for strength and lean tissue gains, but for me, tren is the worse for hairloss, and acne, so I would imagine tren in fairly small doses could wreak havoc on a woman.

I've been doing a lot of research on other boards, and from what I've read, I'd agree that tren is probably not a great AAS for a second cycle, esp stacked. Everything I've read in my research seems to say that for women at least trying a new AAS for the first time it's better not to stack it...learn how each treats your body first. If you get bad sides in a stack, it's hard to tell if it was the combination, or the new drug or what.

That said, I'm just planning my first cycle myself, so I'm no expert. I've been researching it for two years, though, on other boards.

xoxo

Wyst

i think i would agree with that statement.
for sure better not to stack it until i see how it will react.
that's playing it safe.
i have read some posts on another board from women who have used it and have had good results. but again, everyone is different.

i'm satisfied w/ my gains with this first go round and will contemplate another perhaps in the spring.
nothing more to do now except eat , sleep and train hard and continue to make gains the natural way.

thanks for the input...your name sounds a bit familar ~ do we know each other?

Heya, yeah, I know of a few women on other boards who've used tren and looooved it, but they all seemed to say hold off until you've had a few other cycles under the belt, that kind of thing. But not "no, never."

Anyhow, I don't know if we've met up before or not. But I've posted under this name on a lot of boards over the past two years. I don't know if it's cool to mention other boards on here or not...

Check your PM.

xoxo

Wyst

wyst, there's no censorship here

Good to know. I just didn't want to step on any toes as a newbie. I came over from femininemuscle.com.

xoxo

Wyst