winstrol or d bol.

Posted by: @ronn38

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Please take this with a grain of salt, as it is merely my personal opinion.

But unless your fairly new to the game (and some of your other posts leads me to believe you’re not) I would say 8 weeks is too short a cycle to real “get huge.” My 1st cycle was 8 weeks and it was nothing short of amazing (nothing like the first time, right?). However, now I tend to run cycles for 20-26 weeks. I'm sure you've heard it said that everything changes past a gram a week... true that;-) But I also believe everything changes after 12 weeks on a cycle. Longer cycles permit you to use different compounds, thereby allowing you to transition from bulking to cutting to maintenance (pre-PCT for me), while giving each of those phases a solid amount of time to be effective. And common sense would tell us that 24 weeks of training will net greater gains than 8. So I think big is a matter of both training, super-supplementation AND time.

Of course, longer cycles mean longer down time, 26 weeks shutting your hpta down is a bit of a different ball game than 8 weeks--but good PCT brings everything back to normal. And there are ways to keep the boys “awake” during a cycle as well.

Just my 2 cents; but I think longer cycles create better gains that do remain after your cycle better.

Ronn

You ever experimented with myostatin blockers? I was just about to start a thread on this. Maybe answer there.

Posted by: @greengiant

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When I walk into walmart.....I generally want to throw up........................But I get what you mean 🙂

I like the hilljacks with ILS and no teeth. That actully think people don't know they are so strung out on meth they have saw jaw.

Or the fucking FAT ASS people driving those electric carts with baskets full of Mountain Dew and honeybuns. THAT WE TAKE PAYERS PAY FOR.

Posted by: @ronn38

↑

Please take this with a grain of salt, as it is merely my personal opinion.

But unless your fairly new to the game (and some of your other posts leads me to believe you’re not) I would say 8 weeks is too short a cycle to real “get huge.” My 1st cycle was 8 weeks and it was nothing short of amazing (nothing like the first time, right?). However, now I tend to run cycles for 20-26 weeks. I'm sure you've heard it said that everything changes past a gram a week... true that;-) But I also believe everything changes after 12 weeks on a cycle. Longer cycles permit you to use different compounds, thereby allowing you to transition from bulking to cutting to maintenance (pre-PCT for me), while giving each of those phases a solid amount of time to be effective. And common sense would tell us that 24 weeks of training will net greater gains than 8. So I think big is a matter of both training, super-supplementation AND time.

Of course, longer cycles mean longer down time, 26 weeks shutting your hpta down is a bit of a different ball game than 8 weeks--but good PCT brings everything back to normal. And there are ways to keep the boys “awake” during a cycle as well.

Just my 2 cents; but I think longer cycles create better gains that do remain after your cycle better.

Ronn

Agreed sir and ty. This cycle is really just to test how tren affects me. Then when it cools off and I can eat much better, I will do longer 20+ week cycles with a variety of compounds. My initial goals are to see how steroids affect me. I have done test only (first) test/eq/prop, test/deca, now I am test tren. Once I know what sides I get and how to handle them I will do big cycles. I figure take my time, learn slow it takes alot of time to add muscle to a 6'3" frame. No reason to rush it. Recovery is of no concern to me HRT for life.

Good thinking! Hope the tren works well for you.

Ronn

Im goin in to walmart tomarrow and thro up on sumone 😀

Please take this with a grain of salt, as it is merely my personal opinion.

But unless your fairly new to the game (and some of your other posts leads me to believe you’re not) I would say 8 weeks is too short a cycle to real “get huge.” My 1st cycle was 8 weeks and it was nothing short of amazing (nothing like the first time, right?). However, now I tend to run cycles for 20-26 weeks. I'm sure you've heard it said that everything changes past a gram a week... true that;-) But I also believe everything changes after 12 weeks on a cycle. Longer cycles permit you to use different compounds, thereby allowing you to transition from bulking to cutting to maintenance (pre-PCT for me), while giving each of those phases a solid amount of time to be effective. And common sense would tell us that 24 weeks of training will net greater gains than 8. So I think big is a matter of both training, super-supplementation AND time.

Of course, longer cycles mean longer down time, 26 weeks shutting your hpta down is a bit of a different ball game than 8 weeks--but good PCT brings everything back to normal. And there are ways to keep the boys “awake” during a cycle as well.

Just my 2 cents; but I think longer cycles create better gains that do remain after your cycle better.

Ronn

This is interesting. There seems to be a lot of contradicting info out there. I'm new to the game, but I love learning about this stuff. There is a thread on here about front loading that made alot of scientific sense. Basically, it said optimal gains are had within the first 6 weeks and after that gains keep coming but slowly decrease. There are also a lot of articles out there that state after about 10 weeks gains are minimal and it only prolongues pct to run past 10-12 and it's not worth he gains.

However, I believe that like anything in life, different things work for different people in cylcling. There is no set formula. Genetics, training, experience, knowledge...all play a role.

Meanwhile, I'm talking about beginner stuff, and you obviously are on the far opposite end, Ronn. I stil love reading all about the far advanced runs because the whole subject interests me. I do have one question from all of this though: At what point does a guy go beyond his limits and have to run hrt or trt for the rest of his life?

On top of that, there are some men older than myself who have to be on trt or hrt having never run a cycle before, so why not run as many cycles as possible within reason?

Gains stall for many reasons, cortisol levels rise. Diet can also be a factor. These can be avoided by switching compounds, increasing the dose and eating more food. I believe the best time to increase the dose would be week 7 if I remember correctly.

Gains stall for many reasons, cortisol levels rise. Diet can also be a factor. These can be avoided by switching compounds, increasing the dose and eating more food. I believe the best time to increase the dose would be week 7 if I remember correctly.

Do you believe any of the sups that claim to offer cortisol control actually work? Or waste of money?

I read an article (and unfortunately I purged my computer in 2008 so no I don’t have a copy :-/) that demonstrated that men over 60 actually rebounded faster after an 8 weeks cycle. Now part of that rebound is free test levels in a post 60 year old male is different than a 20 year old, but still it demonstrates the body’s rather amazing resiliency. I don't think we'll ever know at what point complete gonadal function ceases, until one of the gentlemen on lifelong TRT decides to try a recovery.

Maybe someone already has, anyone read an article addressing this?

I likewise read with interest the thread here on short, high dosage cycles. Around 2006-7 there was some people working on Super short, super high does cycles of very short esters--14-20 days duration. These intrigued me at the time. I knew one trained athlete who tried it and said the gains were small and didn't last. However, he tried one round and the protocol was 15 on, 15 of for a year.

At this point in my life, I no longer want to "make people throw up in Wal-Mart" (lofty through that goal is;-), I just want to keep a nice build. 17" arms, 48"—more a Frank Zane look...just dated myself there huh. So I've been playing with a two week on, two week off program (using a SARM and Clomid on the off cycle) for some time now and have been very pleased, though I don't use high doses (100 mgs of winny or 20 mgs what superdorl I have left daily). Don't really make gains—mostly because the cycle is often interrupted by work or travel-- just maintain. But since I'm naturally very scrawny, it's a world of difference to me.

However, to almost get back at your question. I have run this protocol for 4 months straight, and had to lay off. 4 weeks of PCT and I was back at normal free test for my age.

Ronn

So basically, you have a lot of cycle experience, tried multiple approaches, and even after all those cycles throughout the years you are able to fully recover your hpta after pct?

It would be great if one day there could be some sanctioned, broad, scientific studies on AAS. I would guess that the majority of pro athletes use some type of AAS or ped. I watch the Olympics and see all of these world records broken. Then I wonder how more people don't realize these records aren't being broken because we are becoming better athletes as humans, but they are being broken because the gear is getting better. I'm not trying to take anything away from the hard work they do. But we aren't evolving so quickly genetically that world records can be broken year after year.

I played competitive college football and even the guys who didn't believe it was right to run cycles just to get bigger, faster, and stronger, would justify using AAS as a recovery tool. Look at all of the pro hormones that were legal up until a short while ago. Some were more androgenic and anabolic then test.

Ive met and played w some amazing athletes who could eat McDonald's everyday, drink beers all night, and beat everyone on the team in strength and speed tests. But the other 90% are all trying to be that guy.

I digressed, but my point is with how prevalent the use of AAS and peds are it's time to stop sweeping it under the rug and be more open about it. But that will never happen. Too many kids watch pro sports and it will never be accepted in fear of kids wanting to run cycles when they grow up.

Do you believe any of the sups that claim to offer cortisol control actually work? Or waste of money?

Not sure bro, never tried one. I take alot of vitamin c and that's it. If it was me I would just save my money for more gear and a good AI.

So basically, you have a lot of cycle experience, tried multiple approaches, and even after all those cycles throughout the years you are able to fully recover your hpta after pct?

Yes. But as a disclaimer, I've never run an injectable--all "on" no cruising--cycle longer than 20 weeks (28 with two "cruises"). These fellows who've been on for years, I can't speak to that.

But yeah. I hear you on the petty non-sense that surrounds AAS. I suspect there are some interesting, long term AAS studies in the old USSR days--but they'd be in Russian:-/

Ronn

I, for one was more impressed with his d-bol than the Stan. Didn't really notice anything off the winstrol. The dianabol was incredible though. and cheaper per pill.

I, for one was more impressed with his d-bol than the Stan. Didn't really notice anything off the winstrol. The dianabol was incredible though. and cheaper per pill.

Does the d bol make your face big like a puffer fish?

I try not to look in the mirror, but I think someone would have said something. I wasn't on it that long. Maybe a week, just order 30 more because I liked them so much, but again not the winny as much. Maybe I wasn't on the stan long enough. But no, no fish. You would think I would have smelled it anyway.