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DBolMan
(@dbolman)
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Joined: 2 months ago
Posts: 12
Topic starter  

Hey bros,

I've been doing quite a bit of searching and reading today and have gotten mixed messages from various sites and boards as to when is the optimum time to take your GH relative to Slin. From what I understand, you do not want to take Slin before you take your GH. So, if I am only going to be taking my Slin post-workout, should I come home, take my GH, wait 30 minutes for the half-life to pass, take the Slin, and do my post Slin creatine/glutamine/dextrose/whey protein/followed by a meal an hour later routine? Or, would you recommend taking the GH pre-workout, hit the gym, come home, hit the Slin, and go from there?

I'll be running GH for 17 weeks @ 5iu/day; Slin at 4 weeks on / 2 weeks off / 4 weeks on, etc; Cytomel @ 12.5mcg/day throughout.

In addition, I'll be running a cycle along with it for 12 weeks, and my PCT will end in week 16, so the GH will be ran one week longer than PCT.

Cycle:
Test E: 500mg - 750mg/week (Weeks 1-10)
Test Prop: 150mg/EOD (Weeks 11-12)
Deca: 400mg/week (Weeks 1-5)
EQ: 400mg/week (Weeks 6-10)
Dbol: 40mg/day (Weeks 1-6)
Tren: 200mg/week (Weeks 6-10)
Winny: 40mg/day (Weeks 9-12)
HCG: 300iu/E5D (Weeks 1-12)
Nolva: 10mg/day (Weeks 1-12)
adex: .25mg/EOD (Weeks 1-13)

PCT:
Nolva: 40mg/day (Week 13), 30mg/day (Week 14), 20mg/day (Week 15), 10mg/day (Weeks 16-17)
clomid: 100mg/day (Week 13), 50mg/day (Weeks 14-15)

I am gyno prone (I've had surgery on both sides), so I want to avoid that at all costs. This is why you see the nolva and Adex, since I am running Test, hCG, and DBol.

FYI, I'm 28-years-old, 5'8", 208 lbs, started at 120 lbs, have more than a few cycles under my belt, have Slin experience with no problems, 12%BF, 18" arms, 32" waist, and this will be my first time using GH. Will start out at 2iu/day and increase by .5iu/week until I reach 5iu/day (2.5iu twice per day), in an effort to avoid sides, such as joint pain, etc. I will take first shot upon awakening, then the other either pre- or post-workout, depending on the responses I receive on here. My goal is to put on a decent amount of size throughout the cycle, keep the majority of it, and lean up.

Suggestions pertaining to the cycle are more than welcome as well.

Thanks and happy holidays!


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MARTYUSA
(@martyusa)
Trusted Member
Joined: 11 months ago
Posts: 72
 

This is a debate that hounds many of us.

I would take my Slin right after my workout and time it perfectly with my breakfast when I got to work. i.e I'd have my shake and take my slin. I would get to work and pick up my breakfast when I got there. I worked about 30-40 minutes from the gym.

As for the GH, I would take about 2 hours before I hit the rack. I never did big enough doses to break it up. 4-5 iu's worked fine for me and my goals. Along with my budget. I did it that way because taking it during the day made ME tired. Come to find out our bodies release our own natural GH while we are sleeping. Now does it interfere with our own GH release? Dunno. All I know is my body does not release 5 IU's at 40 years old. I don't think that much is release at our peaks.

Now if I was doing splits, I would break my Slin up into 2 doses. Timing it within 1 hour of meals. I never did overly too much slin due to the simple fact I did not want to get FAT. It's a science for each of us and I recommend you start small and work your way up. That is if you have never done it before.

I like the T3 in the mix.


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mr.nitro
(@mr-nitro)
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Joined: 2 months ago
Posts: 12
 

id do slin pwo and gh before bed


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jamoliv
(@jamoliv)
Eminent Member
Joined: 2 months ago
Posts: 25
 

there really is no benefit from spliting a dose of gh - ie; 2ius in the am and 2 ius in the pm..just work out what dose you use and pin it all at once.
The only time I would say split the dose is if you experience carpal tunnel with doing it all at once.
As for when to pin it - again it really does not matter. If you pin gh and it makes you sleepy then pin it about an hour before bed but apart from that it really makes no difference when you do it.

GH does not have a half life of 30 mins, it does not have a half life as such - after 17 mins the gh is "converted" to igf. It was thought you should not do anything else in those 17 mins incase it disrupted the gh to igf. This is now not so. If you want to pin your gh and slin pwo draw it up in the same slin pin and pin it. They will both work exactly as they are meant to
As for not taking slin before GH - never heard of that - two very different compounds that work independently in your system - one will not have a negative impact on the other

I personally prefer to keep my insulin levels slightly elevated all day on insulin days. 3ius with each meal and I do this 2-3 times a week

Hey bros,
Cycle:
Test E: 500mg - 750mg/week (Weeks 1-10)
Test Prop: 150mg/EOD (Weeks 11-12)
Deca: 400mg/week (Weeks 1-5)
EQ: 400mg/week (Weeks 6-10)
DBol: 40mg/day (Weeks 1-6)
Tren: 200mg/week (Weeks 6-10)
Winny: 40mg/day (Weeks 9-12)
hCG: 300iu/E5D (Weeks 1-12)
Nolva: 10mg/day (Weeks 1-12)
Adex: .25mg/EOD (Weeks 1-13)
!
the deca and eq will go to waste - deca takes 4 weeks to hit home and you will be ending this at week 5 - eq takes 5-6 weeks to hit and you are only running it for 5 weeks. Both compounds really need to be run 10-12 weeks+ to get the most out of them
Also when you start the tren you will still have a lot of deca in your system and this is going to make your prolactin levels very high so unless you have something to combat this I would time it differently


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DBolMan
(@dbolman)
Active Member
Joined: 2 months ago
Posts: 12
Topic starter  

Thanks guys!

Jam, with regards to the Deca & EQ, would you recommend just running them together at 200mg/week for 10 weeks, since I have a bottle of each (10cc's, 200mg/mL), and save the Tren for another cycle? What would your suggestion be on that? I could always get rid of the bottle of Deca, run the EQ at 400mg/week all the way through and keep the Tren in there.

I have a 45 minute vanpool ride to work in the morning, so I'll plan on taking my GH in the morning ... that way I can take a cat nap on the way to work if it makes me tired. I work out in the afternoon, so I'll hit the Slin post-workout at that time. I have so many meetings and things going on during the day, I would not be able to commit to taking the Slin during the day. It would suck to take a shot, get thrown into a meeting, and get hypo!

Also, you know the Dbol debate - either take your dose split in two, 12 hours apart, to maintain stable blood levels, or take it all at once and have up-and-down blood levels. Well, I know GH has no where near the half-life of Dbol, but wouldn't it sense to take it a couple of times throughout the day, then get the natural dose of GH at night, or would it be better (as you stated) to take it all before bed and get a high peak dose in combination with my natural spurt? I'm not 40 yet, so I probably still have about 0.5-1.5iu of natural growth being put out, correct?

I appreciate your help guys. When it is all said and done, I know I need to find out what works best for me, but I love picking your guys' brains!


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MARTYUSA
(@martyusa)
Trusted Member
Joined: 11 months ago
Posts: 72
 

Jams right with the Deca & Eq issue. If you're prone to Gyno like I am and your running those type of compounds, you may want to consider some Masteron or Proviron. IMHO

The Dbol issues are just that....Personally I think it depends on what my training cycle looks like. If I am hitting it once a day, I'll take the whole 50 at one shot. If I am doing splits, I'll break it up evenly throughout the day. That's what works for me. I really miss the Reforvit-b and wish someone would make it again.

Just don't break anything.. 😉


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DBolMan
(@dbolman)
Active Member
Joined: 2 months ago
Posts: 12
Topic starter  

Thanks bro ... I've noticed that on some of Jam's other posts, he mentions taking the GH at a higher dose, 3 times per week or E3D for the best gains in size. So, would it be a good idea to take my weekly dosages and split it up into 3 doses, each being given on Mon, Wed, Fri, respectively? This would come out to 3.3iu every shot the first week and working up to 10iu every shot by the ninth week and carrying that on through the fifteenth week. Also, I read that it is a good idea to have the androgens and anabolics in your system when you introduce GH, so is loading prior to starting the GH a good idea? If so, then this would allow me to extend the cycle, so I could run the Tren two weeks after discontinuing the EQ & Deca, along with the Winny and Test Prop ... as below.

Let me know if this looks better.

DBol: 40mg/day (Weeks 1-5)
Deca: 200mg/week (Weeks 1-10)
EQ: 200mg/week (Weeks 1-10)
hCG: 300iu/E5D (Weeks 1-18)
Nolva: 10mg/day (Weeks 1-18)
Arimidex: .25mg/EOD (Weeks 1-19)
Test E: 750mg/week (Weeks 2-11)
Test P: 100mg/EOD (Weeks 13-18)
Tren E: 200mg/week (Weeks 13-17)
Winny: 40mg/day (Weeks 13-18)
GH: 10iu/week either split into 5 shots (5 on-2off) or 3 shots (M,W,F), working up 2.5iu/week, until 30iu/week is reached, still either split into 5 shots or 3 shots (Weeks 3-17)
Slin: 5iu/day on training days, working up 1iu/day every week, until 8iu/day is reached, 4 weeks on-2 weeks off (Weeks 3-17)
T3: 12.5mcg/day (Weeks 3-17)

This stretches everything out to an 18 week cycle, with GH being ran for 15 weeks, allowing for loading of androgens and anabolics prior to introducing the GH, and three weeks between the last shot of Deca to the first shot of Tren.

Questions: Have any problems seen earlier been remedied? Any new problems forseen? What are your thoughts on 5 on-2 off versus taking the shot M, W, F with regards to the GH? When I get up to the 30iu/week, it would be 6iu/day, M-F, or 10iu on MWF. Would there really be a difference?

This is shaping up to be a great cycle! After all this, I'll keep you guys posted with weekly updates. I really do appreciate it!


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DBolMan
(@dbolman)
Active Member
Joined: 2 months ago
Posts: 12
Topic starter  

Oh yeah, PCT is the same as before:

Nolva: 40mg/day (Week 19), 30mg/day (Week 20), 20mg/day (Week 21), 10mg/day (Week 22-23)
Clomid: 100mg/day (Week 19), 50mg/day (Week 20-21)

Since I won't be running the GH through my PCT, I've got a fresh bottle of Kynoselen to run as soon as I cease the GH. I know some people love it and some hate it. I have used it a few times and love it, so it should definitely help as an anti-catabolic when I am running PCT. I'll run the Kyno at 2mL/day pre-workout (5 days/week) for 10 weeks.


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Stealth
(@stealth)
New Member
Joined: 2 months ago
Posts: 2
 

I start at 5iu and increase it 1iu each day till I reach my max of 10iu. intake protocol is 10 grams carbs per iu slin, and a minimum 50 grams protein. You want inject slin right after your last rep of your last set. Drink half of your protein, carb shake, wait 10 or 15 minutes and drink the other half. Within an hour after inject, protein and carb load on solid food. One of the best carb loading foods for slin is cream of rice. Taste like shit, but nothing a little splenda can't take care of. Here's a break down of what I eat when on slin.

Pre workout meal
*oatmeal and a glass of welch's grape juice.

After inject shake ( I make my own )
*100 grams fructose
*50 grams isolate ( min )
*5 grams creatine
*5 grams glutamine
*mix with water

Within 1 hour After inject solid food intake
*1/2 cup cream of rice ( dry measure )
* 5 or 6 egg whites and 1 whole egg
* chicken breast
*glass welch's grape juice
* I usually mix everything up, makes it easier to eat.

Use humalog, its the fastest. As for fat deposits, it depends on what sugar you use and what your solid food intake is after inject.

This is very debatable, but I use fructose for my shake. A lot of people say its an evil sugar. But I've never had a problem using it and it doesn't put unwanted fat or water on me. If you stick with 10iu max, you won't have a problem with getting sick. Most pros use a lot more than 10iu which is why thay have to watch themselves more carefully, but for our needs 10iu is plenty and also safe. Don't use no more than 4 weeks. I only use it once a year when bulking, twice if I want to fill out during my cut, but no more than that.


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DBolMan
(@dbolman)
Active Member
Joined: 2 months ago
Posts: 12
Topic starter  

Thanks bro ... when you run GH, do you running it 3 days per week or 5on-2off or 7 days? I am considering 10iu GH every 3 days or 6iu/day for 5on-2off. What do you think about the revised cycle I have laid out above? If I was not including the GH, I would not have any questions, but this new addition makes me feel like a newbie all over again! LoL

I appreciate your help regarind the Slin use. I've used it before with success, but it is always good to get some fresh ideas! Thanks again.


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DBolMan
(@dbolman)
Active Member
Joined: 2 months ago
Posts: 12
Topic starter  

Here is where I read that you do not want to inject Slin before GH: http://www.bulkmuscle.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1586&pid=25877&st=0&#entry25877

"The timing of GH and insulin injections is critical. If insulin is injected before the GH, your pancreas will stop release of insulin monitoring due to the exogenous source. GH when injected will mobilize stored glycogen release which will turn into glucose for energy. This will cause a rapid rise in blood sugar levels that will not shut down or stop rising due to the feedback loop being momentarily cut off. You will go hyperglycemic and end up in the hospital. You must first inject your GH, then the insulin; this will cause a rise in glucose release by the GH and will be controlled and shuttled into muscle tissue for repair by the later injection of insulin."

Also, I talked with my doctor today and he said that exogenous GH will shut down your natural GH production by your pituitary. I've read that it will shut it down for around 4 hours after injection, which is why you do not want to inject too close to bed time. Was he generalizing, or does it shut it down? He was trying to compare it to how your body shuts down Test production when you take synthetic Test. I've always thought differently and read/heard differently. Thoughts?


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DBolMan
(@dbolman)
Active Member
Joined: 2 months ago
Posts: 12
Topic starter  

Worth a read as well:
http://www.agelessgrowth.com/humangrowthhormonefordummies.html


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jamoliv
(@jamoliv)
Eminent Member
Joined: 2 months ago
Posts: 25
 

Here is where I read that you do not want to inject Slin before GH: http://www.bulkmuscle.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1586&pid=25877&st=0&#entry25877

"The timing of GH and insulin injections is critical. If insulin is injected before the GH, your pancreas will stop release of insulin monitoring due to the exogenous source. GH when injected will mobilize stored glycogen release which will turn into glucose for energy. This will cause a rapid rise in blood sugar levels that will not shut down or stop rising due to the feedback loop being momentarily cut off. You will go hyperglycemic and end up in the hospital. You must first inject your GH, then the insulin; this will cause a rise in glucose release by the GH and will be controlled and shuttled into muscle tissue for repair by the later injection of insulin."
Also, I talked with my doctor today and he said that exogenous GH will shut down your natural GH production by your pituitary. I've read that it will shut it down for around 4 hours after injection, which is why you do not want to inject too close to bed time. Was he generalizing, or does it shut it down? He was trying to compare it to how your body shuts down Test production when you take synthetic Test. I've always thought differently and read/heard differently. Thoughts?

this is very old info bro ,over 2-3 years old - and it really does not work like that when combining gh and slin- alot has been learned since this info about the use of gh/slin/igf in our sport.
this info was written by almost pro - aka GK and has since been updated


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DBolMan
(@dbolman)
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Joined: 2 months ago
Posts: 12
Topic starter  

You're the man Jam! Thanks for the feedback and info.


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jamoliv
(@jamoliv)
Eminent Member
Joined: 2 months ago
Posts: 25
 

You're the man Jam! Thanks for the feedback and info.

always a pleasure bro :D.....

when gh/igf/slin was first used as "stack" it was thought the timing of taking each peptide had to be just so but over the last 2-3 years it has been proved this is not so.. people were just being causious when first using them which is a good thing

for example
with gh it was be careful what you eat afterwords - if you use IGF and GH dont do the igf until 17-20 mins has passed from pinning the GH to allow the "conversion" of gh to igf etc etc

the only one that has stayed pretty much the same is insulin - 7-10g of carbs with each iu - low or no fat food on slin days - check blood sugar levels etc etc


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